also, exclamation mark: because it doesnt matter, in the scope of ones existance, it is still all there is.
for you, a bees nest is nothing, yet for the bee, its all it has.
Pooch, here you have a screenshot showing that you are the one accusing shierudo of believing in simulation theory (which he didn't agreed to) and because of that them believing that live is a joke (not specifying why simulation would make it a joke)(edited)
Deleted User
Pooch, here you have a screenshot showing that you are the one accusing shierudo of believing in simulation theory (which he didn't agreed to) and because of that them believing that live is a joke (not specifying why simulation would make it a joke) (edited)
If life is a simulation everything is fake our lives have no meaning or point so why would we care? That's where i got the thinking life is a joke from
That means you put it on purpose, and wanted to experience what you are experiencing now. Why would it make it not purposeful? You literally gave the purpose to it by deciding to play(edited)
im sorry your perception of reality has altered to the point of you being indifferent to whether you live or die by a meme?
Deleted User
That means you put it on purpose, and wanted to experience what you are experiencing now. Why would it make it not purposeful? You literally gave the purpose to it by deciding to play (edited)
That life isint real tho it's all preset its like living in a movie you haven't watched whats gonna happen witn your life is already decided you just dony know what will happen next and when
Takes years of training
Lol, you would only need that time to learn how to give up your sense of self, and I wouldn't want to sign up to a permanent change in my personality. I bet the only hard part of joining is somehow getting the memories together. Too bad they don't know they can split and become a system(edited)
Gray | Shadow System
Takes years of training
Lol, you would only need that time to learn how to give up your sense of self, and I wouldn't want to sign up to a permanent change in my personality. I bet the only hard part of joining is somehow getting the memories together. Too bad they don't know they can split and become a system (edited)
I think it's high time to finish our integration experiment. Mon is satisfied with what he was able to absorb from me. And I missed having my own identity.(edited)
I can both vouch for this and offer what might be a counter point. With Spirit's dissipation, he changed over time before he had the chance to dissipate while Jasper was already struggling before he decided to dissipate, so one could argue Jasper either wasn't as developed or he lost development at one point. Additionally, I think it's interesting to note our Sub. Rep. managed to survive despite being forgotten about twice and we figured this out the same tulpa had 3 identities. Despite the unintentional forcing, he was strong enough to be remembered and revived. On the other hand, I noticed a similar process when I shifted my belief about my gender. When it clicked for me I acted immediately, but it took time for my comfort to be consistent with my beliefs. This took about a week or two, and later on to my surprise I started feeling more comfortable in a female form. I have still yet to change my mindvoice, but I may change that too. Even if tulpamancy does require effort, weirdly enough beliefs do too...
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1:49 PM
Tulpamancy isn't a skill
I disagree.
Most things in tulpamancy are strictly skills, and I believe everything required for tulpa creation is infact a skill. Even if a new ability is strictly mindset based, at some point you had to learn to be open to other mindsets or already have learned the right thinking to begin with. Things that are a bit obvious as skills are visualization and imposition. Less obvious would be possession, automation (how an entity in the mind can have automated responses), narration, and the least obvious are switching and establishing separation.
Switching is very dependent on mindset, and this can come very naturally for most and not for others. However, I suspect learning the mindset for switching is still a skill. Otherwise, the ability to maintain being switched-in could be a skill in of itself.
For establishing separation, I believe it is in fact a skill and it's comparable to learning how to ride a bike. Initially, it seems to me almost all tulpamancers struggle with establishing separation. Doubt and parrotnoia are common deterrents, so much so I think it's one of the few things almost all tulpamancers share in common. Regardless if a tulpamancer starts out being more open to intrusive thoughts or not, they move back and forth on that scale but it's usually a waiting game unless them moving to be more open or more restrictive never happened in the first place. But once separation is finally established, it's a learned skill and I think you keep it forever. I have seen people who struggled to create a tulpa, finally figure out separation, and then they struggle with walk-ins. It's painfully ironic, but I think it's a direct consequence of speration being a skill the brain can learn.
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1:49 PM
If tulpas a collection of pathways, how is that related to separation?
I believe establishing separation is not directly tied to the tulpa, where personal development is. Once we established separation, Gray was far less doubtful of our headmates than he was towards me initially. Even if Gray struggled with having trouble identifying a soupy headmate, it was nothing like the stress and struggle he delt with doubting my responses. On the other hand, I like the idea tulpas are a neural network in the mind. I think some traits are "hard coded" or can be deeply influential like personality forcing, but other behaviors and beliefs come directly from memories and their experiences. I do want to point out being a soulbond-like tulpa can be sticky business because psychologically because there is little to no difference between backstory and memories as far as the mind is concerned, and both take effort and time to develop. Regardless, a tulpa becomes more developed when they have a larger pool to draw from and they have had enough life experiences to call their own.
Further to this point I have experienced the opposite. Mika was developed when I finally decided to let him go fully this year. I said goodbye and afterward though I thought quite consistently about whether my decision was correct I only actually called them up to speak to them consciously and a few times. The reflexes that were built up were instead being directed toward Rhys, however, quite naturally, so maybe that's because I had that as a cushion.
I don't like offering tl;drs, I don't think it will do you any good. At the very least, this is a deep dive into theory, I don't think there's any creation advice hiding in plain sight or anything
Most things in tulpamancy are strictly skills, and I believe everything required for tulpa creation is infact a skill.
I think this is a semantic disagreement. To clarify, when I say skill, I do not mean something that takes knowledge. I mean something in the context that I think they seemed to mean it - Something akin to a reflex which must be developed. Mindsets are not reflexes, and they don't need to be developed. The only thing that prevents you from achieving one is really the limited understanding of yourself.(edited)
1:58 PM
One thing that I do think is a skill is the the ingraining of them into daily life successfully. Mindfulness is a skill.
The brain is a giant muscle though, and learning takes effort in general. Why would a mindset not be a skill, especially since the end result of a mindset is ingraining new behaviors in your daily life?
A mindset is a baseline state. It doesn't require input to achieve. You are either in a mindset or not. What I would also say is a skill however is recognizing which mindsets are helpful and which are not, this, as you say, requires practice - As proxi mentioned before this is the definition of emotional intelligence.
Establishing separation is when you can distinguish yourself from your tulpa. To do this, you have to accept that this piece of "me" is no longer "I", but instead is a tulpa, or "you". It's a pretty fundamental step in tulpamancy to establish separation between "I" and "you".
2:09 PM
It's so fundamental I wish I could call it the collective theory of tulpamancy
The ability to distinguish between the self and the other seems to be the innate thing that reinforces magical traditions. In fact I think you're wrong about it being not true for tulpas too. Early on, there were many who stated their early experiences were not a slow build like I'd say is normal, but ones who stated immediately that not only did they get dissociated responses, but strongly other and alien responses that were far in excess of what you'd expect.
A long kiss goodnight
Establishing separation is when you can distinguish yourself from your tulpa. To do this, you have to accept that this piece of "me" is no longer "I", but instead is a tulpa, or "you". It's a pretty fundamental step in tulpamancy to establish separation between "I" and "you".
This, however, is clearly just a matter of suggested response. I've been trying to find that article on long-term suggestion in religion vs short term ritual that someone did on the forum, but I can't see it. But the long and the short of it is that short term ritual is basically hypnosis and can actually have more profound effects.
2:16 PM
The whole crux of my argument is essentially this: We have solid examples of tulpas being generated immediately. The thing that hypnosis cannot do is generate complexity, but that's not tulpamancy, it's just development of a personality and character growth. All of the actual aspects that I consider tulpamancy are contained within the idea that you mention, seperation of an identity, acknowledgement of its validity, experiencing the resultant experiential effects. All of that can happen immediately and by and large that was actually the historical way of doing so.
That's where I'm unsure. You can be open to intrusive thoughts and believe the voice talking back isn't you, but will you still believe that tomorrow? If you don't and you get parrotnoid, that's where I would want to reassure you just need more practice.
On separation not being unique to tulpamancy- I think that's a fair point and it makes sense. I don't think most things in tulpamancy are really that original or anything, and I would be surprised if tulpa-like experiences were not taking place under a different label in the past.
Later you can also accept it's no longer "I" and "you" but "I" and another "I".
That's one of the interesting debates in tulpamancy, if that interpretation leads to having a tulpa or not. Personally, I think if tulpas are ultimately facets of yourself, I'm not sure if you're working with tulpas anymore. I think you are still practicing tulpamancy because you're using similar skills and techniques, but I think a tulpa should be expected to be somehow not you at some point. On the other hand, if someone defines "I" to be their SOC and they manage to create a second one and they can switch with that, are they still practicing tulpamancy? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't help that it's not clear if such a thing is possible or not.
2:25 PM
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I didn't even touch "emotional states" yet, I'm afraid I'll have to come back on that some other time
On the topic of complexity, typically any given occultist will be summoning something specific. Understanding of the archetype can generate that complexity immediately.
2:28 PM
Which I think shows just how much generating complexity is just an entirely different mechanism from the tulpamancy itself.
2:31 PM
that's where I would want to reassure you just need more practice.
I literally never tell someone they need more practice because in my experience more practice just meant spinning my wheels to be honest.
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